06-11-2023, 07:03 PM
Many of you may be familiar with Dr. Carol Byrne's work on the Dialogue Mass.
Below is the response she gives in response to a question regarding standing during the Pater Noster in the pre-1955 Missae:
TIA | June 1, 2023
Dear TIA,
I was hoping you could ask Dr. Carol Byrne a question about the old rubrics of the Mass.
For some time now, I have been kneeling during the Our Father in High Masses (everyone kneels during it in the Low Masses). I was told that standing during the Our Father was an innovation. Recently however, I became concerned that this could be wrong and I do not want to stand out for no reason during the Holy Mass (at present, only I and another family continue to kneel).
Can you clarify for me the correct rubrics regarding the position of the congregation (standing or kneeling) during the Our Father?
Thank you,
M.G.
______________________
Dr. Carol Byrne responds:
Dear M.G.,
Whether to stand at the Pater Noster during a High or Sung Mass is one of those vexed questions that even traditional Catholics today have been known to argue about at length but never manage to settle or resolve.
There are no rubrics for lay people in the traditional Roman Missal. Whatever postures they adopted during a High or Sung Mass were regulated purely by custom, which varied slightly from place to place. These were, however, usually kept to a minimum, such as standing for the Gospel and the Creed, and at the entrance and exit of the priest and his ministers, as ecclesiastical decorum dictates.
My memories go back to the early 1950s when the congregation, including my parents, knelt during most of the High Mass, telling their beads while the choir sang. Any orders for the laity to stand, let along sing, during the Pater Noster would have been greeted with admiratio (astonishment). It would never have occurred to the older generation of those days that they should mimic the actions of the priest and choir (as they are instructed to do nowadays) – in fact, they would have instinctively recoiled from such an instruction.
It was only when the Liturgical Movement introduced “active participation”, and when it was imposed on the faithful by progressive Bishops from the 1960s onwards, that all the congregation were expected to stand up and sing at various intervals, including at the Pater Noster. Since then, they have been in a constant state of movement up and down, up and down, throughout the Mass, performing a sort of Catholic calisthenics. This is hardly conducive to the right atmosphere for contemplation of the Holy Sacrifice, which is the only correct way for lay people to participate in the Mass.
So, it is my opinion that you do well in kneeling during the Pater Noster.
Kind regards,
Dr. Carol Byrne
Below is the response she gives in response to a question regarding standing during the Pater Noster in the pre-1955 Missae:
Liturgical Calisthenics
TIA | June 1, 2023
Dear TIA,
I was hoping you could ask Dr. Carol Byrne a question about the old rubrics of the Mass.
For some time now, I have been kneeling during the Our Father in High Masses (everyone kneels during it in the Low Masses). I was told that standing during the Our Father was an innovation. Recently however, I became concerned that this could be wrong and I do not want to stand out for no reason during the Holy Mass (at present, only I and another family continue to kneel).
Can you clarify for me the correct rubrics regarding the position of the congregation (standing or kneeling) during the Our Father?
Thank you,
M.G.
______________________
Dr. Carol Byrne responds:
Dear M.G.,
Whether to stand at the Pater Noster during a High or Sung Mass is one of those vexed questions that even traditional Catholics today have been known to argue about at length but never manage to settle or resolve.
There are no rubrics for lay people in the traditional Roman Missal. Whatever postures they adopted during a High or Sung Mass were regulated purely by custom, which varied slightly from place to place. These were, however, usually kept to a minimum, such as standing for the Gospel and the Creed, and at the entrance and exit of the priest and his ministers, as ecclesiastical decorum dictates.
My memories go back to the early 1950s when the congregation, including my parents, knelt during most of the High Mass, telling their beads while the choir sang. Any orders for the laity to stand, let along sing, during the Pater Noster would have been greeted with admiratio (astonishment). It would never have occurred to the older generation of those days that they should mimic the actions of the priest and choir (as they are instructed to do nowadays) – in fact, they would have instinctively recoiled from such an instruction.
It was only when the Liturgical Movement introduced “active participation”, and when it was imposed on the faithful by progressive Bishops from the 1960s onwards, that all the congregation were expected to stand up and sing at various intervals, including at the Pater Noster. Since then, they have been in a constant state of movement up and down, up and down, throughout the Mass, performing a sort of Catholic calisthenics. This is hardly conducive to the right atmosphere for contemplation of the Holy Sacrifice, which is the only correct way for lay people to participate in the Mass.
So, it is my opinion that you do well in kneeling during the Pater Noster.
Kind regards,
Dr. Carol Byrne
"So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, so that we may remain Catholics, remain united to the Blessed Virgin Mary, remain united to the Roman Catholic Church, remain faithful children of the Church."- Abp. Lefebvre